Talk:Jared Taylor

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Add "Nazi"

It's no secret that Jared Taylor is a far-right, extremist, racist, bat-shit insane conspiracy theorist, but he is also an outspoken National Socialist.

Adding "Nazi" to his Wikipedia page is only right. I'm aware that my source has a left-leaning bias, but is ultimately, objectively correct. I think the video manages to encapsulate the Nazi views of Jared Taylor.

View my source and see for yourself, how this evil NAZI constantly spreads his EVIL, NAZI rhetoric.

Source:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uXBdvEHFd0 Montefjanton (talk) 10:24, 15 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

YouTube is not a RS. See the list: [1] Rja13ww33 (talk) 17:09, 15 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

2016 Vox interview re Trump

I hope that putting the content in chronological order is not being disputed...

I've tried to summarize the introductory section of the interview. I'm not sure much is WP:DUE without better sources. --Hipal (talk) 23:58, 24 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I take issue with this.....and I will revert it unless I am given a good reason why or consensus is against it. First you said (in a edit summary) the issue was that the quote was too lengthy. Then you said the chopped down version was still too long. (Which simply isn't true.) Then you started saying chronological order was the issue. Which is it? The bottom line is there is nothing wrong with this edit [2]. To have a section on Donald Trump in a article on Jared Taylor....and not include Jared Taylor's thoughts on Trump's racial views (from RS) is utterly preposterous. Rja13ww33 (talk) 00:06, 25 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

You do not have consensus to add this quote. Instead of edit warring, discuss here.

Taylor has given many interviews and has shared many personal opinions. This doesn't matter, and it does not make him an expert on politics or psychology, or any other relevant topic. His personal opinions about some other person are not inherently relevant. To put it another way, he is completely unqualified to analyze what Trump's "consciousness" was in 2016, so this opinion is vaguely promotional clutter. Grayfell (talk) 01:33, 25 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

In a section on Donald Trump....we are not going to include what Taylor thinks of Trump's racial views? He doesn't need to be "qualified" to say why he thinks Trump is an ally. Or if he thinks Trump is a kindred spirit (intellectually). This is a big portion of the quoted article and clarifies what he really thinks of the current President. I see no logical reason for this (and the fact the reasons keep changing reinforces that.) Rja13ww33 (talk) 01:42, 25 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I see multiple valid reasons to oppose this kind of bland padding. Taylor is not a credible source of factual information about anyone's mindset, especially about what is "normal" or "healthy". Grayfell (talk) 03:19, 25 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Taylor is a expert on his opinion. That is all that counts. I can certainly think of other ways to put it/summarize it....but I am hearing no valid reason to exclude it. This may have to go to RFC.Rja13ww33 (talk) 03:31, 25 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a soapbox. --Hipal (talk) 15:39, 25 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Please tell me what about what I am doing is SOAPBOXING here? That's the second time someone has implied there is something "promotional" going on here. Who is promoting what exactly? Be specific. Rja13ww33 (talk) 16:50, 25 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Rather than turning to the independent analysis in the reference and summarizing it, you are picking quotes to support a certain portions of Taylor's pov. Doing so violates NOT, POV, and BLP. --Hipal (talk) 17:26, 25 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The article is full of quotes directly from Taylor. I am selecting nothing except what he believes. That is common in almost every article here. Rja13ww33 (talk) 17:34, 25 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

WP:OSE. --Hipal (talk) 18:57, 25 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

We aren't talking just other articles...we are talking this one too. But you want something without a quote from Taylor? Fine, direct from the RSs cited...I would say: "Taylor does not see Trump as a white supremacist in line with his views, but still supports Trump because he believes his racial views are closer to his than the alternatives such as Hillary Clinton."

That is coming from the 3 RSs mentioned before....and actually here is a 4th (at about 26 min in) [3] Rja13ww33 (talk) 19:28, 25 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

That's something completely different than what's supported by the Vox ref. We certainly can consider what those new refs bring.

Don't waste our time with more interviews, like that video. --Hipal (talk) 19:44, 25 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Well I disagree. And I see no issue with paraphrasing (or direct quoting) Taylor. All references are given in this thread. I see this conversation is useless and I will start a RFC on this (probably next week).Rja13ww33 (talk) 19:46, 25 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The CNN article (linked below) just quotes Taylor, with no analysis, so I don't see why we'd give it any weight.

Seems like you're looking for refs to support your point of view, without regard to our policies. At least three sanction topics apply. Tread with care.

I'm unclear if the WaPo article (linked below) should be used. It quotes Taylor at length, barely summarizing, "Taylor is firm in his support for Trump, clear that his reasons have to do with race." --Hipal (talk) 19:57, 25 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

There is no rule here that prohibits quoting or paraphrasing directly from RS. And you cherry picked the WaPo article. It says (not in a direct quote): "Taylor said that he does not believe Trump is a white supremacist.". And that is exactly what my latest proposal said.Rja13ww33 (talk) 20:10, 25 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The cherry picking, and ignoring policy, is all yours. Please drop it. --Hipal (talk) 20:51, 25 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think so....but lets just save it for the RFC. Rja13ww33 (talk) 20:54, 25 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

He may well be, but is that opinion expert? Slatersteven (talk) 15:44, 25 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Since when is it a requirement to be? We have RS of him expressing his opinion of Trump. I would think the reader would want to know: does he consider Trump a intellectual leader of the alt-right? Did he influence Taylor at all (or vice versa)? Is Trump just a useful idiot to him? These kinds of questions are answered by what I posted. And I found 2 more today [4] [5]. That is 3 RSs (straight from our reliable source list) all essentially saying the same thing. To leave this out in a section about Trump in a article on Jared Taylor is unbelievable. We include people's thoughts on other people all the time in other articles. (Even the articles on prominent Nazis fer crissakes.) I don't see a policy based argument here. Rja13ww33 (talk) 16:48, 25 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Its not (as such) by wp:undue and wp:blp come into it, why is his views on Trumpy needed? What does it tell us about Taylor? Slatersteven (talk) 16:52, 25 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

What does it tell us about Taylor? Please re-read my previous reply to you. Rja13ww33 (talk) 16:54, 25 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Taylor has been doing soft PR for white supremacism for decades. This particular claim isn't informative, even as an example. Taylor is not a credible source for the claim Trump isn't "race conscious". I don't know whether or not Taylor actually believes this, either. Taylor's claims are demonstrably incorrect, and this was clear in 2016 (starting with Fred Trump#Federal civil rights lawsuit and going to Barack Obama citizenship conspiracy theories#Donald Trump, with many, many more in between). Taylor's claim only superficially make sense if we accept his bundle of WP:FRINGE claims about race and crime and so-on. For us to be accepting that premise, even as an 'opinion' with attribution, is still a fringe issue. Taylor is not qualified to speak on Trump, or on race, or on normalcy. The point of him saying this is imply that racism is 'normal'. Wikipedia isn't a platform for this kind of PR, and laundering it by presenting it as an opinion is not appropriate.

Again, there are multiple reasons this doesn't belong. Grayfell (talk) 19:51, 25 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

So wiki isn't the place for this.....why is the article packed with Taylor quotes like "Whites are making a terrible mistake by setting in motion forces that will reduce them to a minority."?

I disagree that his statement isn't informative. Analyzing how much Trump is in bed with the alt-right (intellectually or otherwise) is indeed very informative. Rja13ww33 (talk) 20:04, 25 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, it could be informative, but Taylor isn't reliable for this analysis, and this article on Taylor isn't the best place for an analysis of Trump. To put it another way, picking examples of Taylor's musings and describing them as an analysis is editorializing. Wikipedia doesn't assume that Taylor even knows what he's talking about, assuming he isn't being disingenuous. Grayfell (talk) 23:02, 25 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

For a guy who isn't reliable/doesn't know what he is talking about....a lot of his quotes sure are in the article. (And I am not the one who put them there btw.) In any case, I think I am done talking about this under this format. Rja13ww33 (talk) 00:13, 26 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

You're right. I've trimmed some of the bloat. Grayfell (talk) 05:27, 27 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Rfc: Jared Taylor's views on Trump

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There is an ongoing disagreement among editors about whether or not Jared Taylor's views on Trump's racial beliefs should be included. I propose the following options as additions to the article:

Option 1: "Taylor has said that he doesn't believe Trump is an white supremacist or a "secret race realist." Saying that he thinks Trump has "healthy reactions" to legal and illegal immigration and that Trump's racial views make him a better alternative than his political opponents."^[1]^[2]^[3]^[4]
Option 2: Propose what you think would be appropriate.
Option 3: No addition.

Please indicate which option you support.Rja13ww33 (talk) 21:29, 28 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Survey

Option 1: As proposer. In a section on Donald Trump (which I didn't create by the way) it makes no sense to not include what Taylor thinks of Trump's racial views. I am using 4 RSs (straight from our RS list [6]) to do so. I would think the reader would want to know: does he consider Trump a intellectual leader of the alt-right? Did he influence Taylor at all (or vice versa)? Is Trump just a useful idiot to him? How close are his racial views to Trump's? These kinds of questions are answered by what I posted. Analyzing how much Trump is in bed with the alt-right (intellectually or otherwise) is worthwhile for understanding this movement. See the talk page for the discussion/arguments that has preceded this. I have found the arguments against this unpersuasive. The idea that Taylor has to be an expert on (whatever) to express his own opinion is ridiculous. The article is filled with his quotes. (And only now do the people who oppose this take issue with that [7].) Rja13ww33 (talk) 21:29, 28 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Beauchamp, Zack (21 November 2016). "A leading white nationalist says it plainly: Trump's victory was about white identity". Vox.
^ Ross, Janell (November 12, 2016). "Trump win spawns fear and loathing among people he disparaged and alienated". The Washington Post. Retrieved April 28, 2025.
^ "Video: Jared Taylor: Whites Deserve a Homeland". March 21, 2017. see at about 26:18
^ Ganim, Sara; Welch, Chris (January 16, 2017). "Hail Trump? White nationalists already losing faith in President-elect". CNN. Retrieved April 28, 2025.

Discussion

Currently, this appears to be a case of WP:IDHT and an attempt to create ignore applicable policies. Please address the policy concerns from the previous discussion.

Currently, this is a bad RfC, misrepresenting the situation, specifically There is an ongoing disagreement among editors about whether or not Jared Taylor's views on Trump's racial beliefs should be included. is a misrepresentation, as we agreed to such content and that content is currently in the article. Please rewrite. --Hipal (talk) 16:10, 29 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It is nothing of the sort. This is a disagreement on policy interpretation. I didn't agree to the content. And I want other opinions than those who watch this page. Anyone can look at your edit summaries (reverting my changes) and notice that your reasons for opposing this have been all over the place. Now you are claiming IDHT. Rja13ww33 (talk) 16:47, 29 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

You didn't address the concern with you are misinterpreting the situation. Does that mean you agree? --Hipal (talk) 17:07, 29 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

No, I don't agree at all. And I am not misrepresenting anything. Rja13ww33 (talk) 17:12, 29 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

So the content that we agreed upon, currently in the article, "Taylor believes that white voters were drawn to Donald Trump in the 2016 election specifically because of Trump's racist rhetoric.^[1]" is not relevant? --Hipal (talk) 17:35, 29 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Where exactly did I agree to that? Just because I didn't remove it doesn't mean I am a fan of it. I just felt more needed to be said in line with the sources. At the time (IIRC) I was flirting with 3RR anyway and this was turning into a edit war. Rja13ww33 (talk) 17:39, 29 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Beauchamp, Zack (21 November 2016). "A leading white nationalist says it plainly: Trump's victory was about white identity". Vox.

[1] Beauchamp, Zack (21 November 2016). "A leading white nationalist says it plainly: Trump's victory was about white identity". Vox.

[2] Ross, Janell (November 12, 2016). "Trump win spawns fear and loathing among people he disparaged and alienated". The Washington Post. Retrieved April 28, 2025.

[3] "Video: Jared Taylor: Whites Deserve a Homeland". March 21, 2017. see at about 26:18

[4] Ganim, Sara; Welch, Chris (January 16, 2017). "Hail Trump? White nationalists already losing faith in President-elect". CNN. Retrieved April 28, 2025.

[5] Beauchamp, Zack (21 November 2016). "A leading white nationalist says it plainly: Trump's victory was about white identity". Vox.

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